(thanks to Maggie Glass for the transcription work)
Robin Lustig: I’ve been talking to the American writer Jaclyn Friedman, who edited a book called “Yes Means Yes: Visions of Female Sexual Power and a World Without Rape” and Katrin Axelsson of the group Women Against Rape. She wrote in a letter to The Guardian about what she called the “unusual zeal” with which the case against Julian Assange is being pursued, so I asked her why
she used that phrase.
Katrin Axelsson: Because this is very unusual. You know, women in our group, who report rape, do not have this experience, when they go and report rape. You know, the man who is being accused is treated like this. We have women in our group who have suffered domestic violence and repeated rape for a long time – very serious situations, where the men accused have been let out on bail, while the police have been investigating. We have cases where an underage girl was raped, and where it took the police several months to arrest the man, even though they had his address.
Robin Lustig: But you don’t think it’s wrong for the authorities to take seriously allegations of this kind, do you?
Katrin Axelsson: We think that rape allegations should be taken seriously, but they’re usually not. The conviction rate in this country for reported rapes is 6.5%. In Sweden, 90% of the reported rapes did not go to court.
Robin Lustig: Jaclyn Friedman, what do you make of the suspicion that many people are voicing? That there is something unusual and suspicious about the way in which this particular case is being pursued?
Jaclyn Friedman: I absolutely think that the “zeal” is politically motivated. I can’t agree more with that. But I do think that what it’s translating into is an unfortunate backlash against the women who are alleging sexual violence and I think that the answer to the hypocrisy and the usual apathy that the authorities have towards sexual violence is not to, therefore, downplay this case. That we should be saying, “Yes, this is wonderful that we should take this so seriously. Let’s see this happen in all cases.”
Robin Lustig: Katrin Axelsson, do you think there is a danger that by drawing attention to what you believe is the unusual way in which this case is being pursued, you do, at least implicitly, cast doubt on what the women complainers in Sweden have been saying?
Katrin Axelsson: We haven’t commented on that. We don’t know all the details. We comment on what we know, which is that we have been working with rape survivors for 34 years and we have never experienced this before. We have worked with many women who have suffered very horrible situations, including women who have been gang-raped by soldiers in the Congo or other countries, and come here to seek asylum. And their cases – both women who report rape here and women seeking asylum from rape – are not treated like they should be.
Robin Lustig: Jaclyn Friedman, is there a confusion of different issues here, do you think? There are sexual assault and rape allegations, which have been made in Sweden, there is obviously the whole WikiLeaks saga, with which Julian Assange is very personally connected. Are people getting these two things muddled up?
Jaclyn Friedman: I think they’re getting them entirely muddled up. It’s possible to see Julian Assange as a hero for free speech, as many people do, and for him to also be guilty of sexual assault. And the one does not negate the other. If we saw him as culturally a villain, no one would be questioning bringing him in on these assault charges, if that was a way that we could, quote-unquote, “get at him.” Now, I personally think that if the governments involved have a case against him on espionage that they want to bring, or whatever, they should bring that. However, it doesn’t mean that they should not pursue sexual assault charges if they’ve been made against him. We need to not hold people who we think of as lefty, progressive heroes to a different standard than the rest of the population. He does not get a free pass on sexual assault just because a lot of people think that he has done a good thing.
Robin Lustig: The American writer, Jaclyn Friedman, in Boston, together with Katrin Axelsson of Women Against Rape, here in London.
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